How Valerie Derouen packages science into outreach activities
Who is responsible for creating a bridge between the scientists asking questions and
the curious public? The answer, Outreach Specialists. In this episode we speak with
Valerie Derouen, the LSU Museum of Natural Science’s very own outreach coordinator. Valerie is tasked with packaging the hardcore science
and conservation efforts done by museum researchers into activities that engage audiences
of all ages. We learn what a typical day looks like for an Outreach Specialist, how
to develop activities for public events and spaces, the curves in Valerie’s science
career that led her to the museum, and how she hopes to inspire the next generation
of scientists. (Transcript below.)
Listen to the full episode below, and subscribe to LSU Experimental on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, Spotify, TuneIn or anywhere you get your podcasts.
LSU Experimental is a podcast series that shares the research and the “behind the scenes” stories of LSU faculty, student, and alumni investigators across the disciplines. Listen and learn about the exciting topics of study and the individuals posing the questions. Each episode is recorded and produced in CxC Studio 151 on the campus of Louisiana State University, and is supported by LSU Communication across the Curriculum and LSU College of Science. LSU Experimental is hosted by Dr. Becky Carmichael and edited by Kyle Sirovy.
Transcript
Becky Carmichael
[0:01] This is LSU Experimental, where we explore exciting research occurring at Louisiana State University and learn about the individuals posing the questions. I'm Becky Carmichael. Outreach specialists are the bridge between scientists asking questions and the curious public. They are responsible for packaging the hardcore science into activities that can engage all ages, providing a sneak peek into the behind the scenes moments of exploration. Valerie Derouen, LSU Museum of Natural Science outreach coordinator, walks us through her typical day developing activities for multiple events and spaces, the curves in her science career that led to the museum, and how she hopes to inspire the next generation of scientists,
Valerie Derouen
[0:50] Natural history museums are the libraries of life on Earth. They serve to preserve specimens from all over the world as a physical record of what exists on Earth, to aid scientists in exploration and the discovery of our natural world, and to educate by bringing the natural world to the public. And these specimens are packed with information. They provide a snapshot of nature frozen in time. This is crucial because it allows us to see what organisms existed at a particular moment in time, how these organisms are related to each other, and how their populations have changed over time. And because we can see how the populations change over time, it makes our specimens powerful conservation tools, providing a better understanding of a species' natural history. Understanding this natural history helps inform biodiversity, as well as supports the human existence from medicines to agriculture and beyond. One of the nation's leaders in terms of size and diversity of its collections is here at LSU, the Museum of Natural Science. We have over 2.5 million specimens including birds, mammals, fish, amphibians and reptiles, fossils and human artifacts. We have the oldest and largest collection of frozen vertebrate tissues in the world, the third largest university based collection of birds, and have discovered over 100 new species since our start in 1936. The specimens within the museum are cool, but need someone to tell their stories. I get the pleasure of being the outreach coordinator for the museum, sharing the stories of specimens with the public. A typical day means I have to be ready for anything. I may be providing a behind the scenes tour (of) our research collections to visiting groups, or creating and presenting at outreach events like Earth Day, or I may be elbow deep in craft projects for a kids program or polishing the museum's quarterly newsletter. And then there's grants. I'm responsible for securing funds to continue providing outreach events for all ages, and updating the physical exhibits in the museum. My favorite part of my job is coordinating our outreach programs like special Saturdays and Night at the Museum. I really love being able to create opportunities for others to connect with science. When I started college, I wanted to be a research scientist who studied animals. But along the way, I realized that what I actually loved was relaying that science to others. Doing the science just wasn't fulfilling enough for me. I needed to get other people as excited as I was to learn about the natural world. And this job is perfect because I can still be around the science, but I can also help inspire people to understand and value science and the environment we live in. I really think informal education outreach programs such as those implemented through museums have a significant role to play in cultivating interest in science. They invoke a natural curiosity that leaves people more open to learn. I was always drawn to science, but it was those informal experiences like trips to the zoo, or participating in science fair that really solidified it for me. Natural history museums plays such an important role in science, conservation, and the human existence, and though many people know they exist, most people are not aware of why they exist. This is where I come in, I can tell the stories of the Natural History Museum and I can share those stories in many ways. Outreach coordinators like myself connect the public with the museum so people understand the importance of these spaces. I want the museum to be a resource for people who want to connect with our natural world and to those who don't know that they're interested yet. I hope to channel their curiosity, and maybe inspire the next generation of scientists and science enthusiasts.
Becky Carmichael
[4:42] Valerie, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm really excited to have you here on our podcast and to learn more about what you do on a daily basis as well as have our listeners learn what is your role at LSU's Museum of Natural Sciences.
Valerie Derouen
[4:58] Yeah, I'm so excited.
Becky Carmichael
[4:59] Well look, getting right into it. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background? And then what drew you into science outreach?
Valerie Derouen
[5:09] Yeah, so um, so my name is Valerie Derouen. And I am the outreach coordinator at the Museum of Natural Science. I'm from St. Martinville, Louisiana, which is a really small town near Lafayette, and I was really influenced by that areas culture, and it's part of kind of who I am, I grew up Creole and both sides of my family are Creole. So it was really cool to grow up in a place with a lot of culture and influence. But around... I guess since I was young, I've always been interested in animals and science and I would go outside and like to learn about, like, the different insects and even my parents, like my dad, would catch frogs or grasshoppers for us to come and observe later, and we would get excited about it. And so that was kind of my initial entryway into the natural sciences. And then I would watch shows like "The Most Extreme" on animal planet, or just those nature shows. We could see how amazing nature was and so growing up I wanted to be a scientist like Jeff Corwin, because he just seemed like he went on so many cool adventures and was seeing so many cool things. And I was like, I want to do that. So that was my goal (through) coming into college, I wanted to be a research scientist who studied animals. And then- so I got involved at the museum. Just kind of serendipitously. But then after going through different types of research, like I did some behavioral things, some evolutionary things, ecology, I kind of realized that what I really liked was to talk to people about what I was doing, like doing the research was okay, but I was not as excited about that as I was to tell people what I was doing. So even through high school, I was doing science fairs every year, and got really into competing at the state and district levels. So I realized, you know what, I think what I like to do is relay scientific information to the public. So eventually, I did a masters at the museum studying bat fishes and their evolutionary history, but then also creating an activity book to go along with our new fish exhibit. And then eventually, they hired me as the outreach coordinator.
Becky Carmichael
[7:18] Oh my gosh. So one of the things you said, was like that, that initial inspiration, you know, you've got a family member or someone who's allowing you to see what's around you. But then you're taking me back to my- my passion was like the PBS nature. I was that kid that was watching, like, the, I don't know, the cheetahs stalking things, and thinking that it was really interesting that they had their own personal narrator. (laughing)
Valerie Derouen
[7:47] Yeah.
Becky Carmichael
[7:48] So you have, you've really… you started here as an undergraduate. And then you came and you were doing your- you went ahead and did your masters here as well. So great work. Tell me a little bit about this- this masters of natural science degree. What is it? And what were you doing while you were, you were completing that?
Valerie Derouen
[8:13] Yeah. So whenever I decided I wanted to do a masters, it was right around the time that I was deciding I didn't want to be a research scientist anymore. But that transition was really scary. And I had spent four years in college gaining, or not gaining, like, going after this one thing, and senior year figuring out, oh, maybe I don't want to do this. What am I going to do now? I'm about to have this degree and so I was working sort of with Adrian Steel, who works in the College of Engineering now. And she had gotten a Master's with the museum, but then decided she wanted to do more informal education. And I was like, maybe I should look into that. So LSU has a cool master's program called the master of natural science, that allows you to almost design your own masters, a lot of teachers who want a secondary degree go through it, because it's really flexible. So it's like, okay, this might be good because I can still go into research if I decide that I want to do that, or I can go and get certified to teach in a classroom, or I can do informal education. So I thought this message was a great way to kind of figure it out, like, buy me some time to figure out what I really wanted to do, but still get a degree in the process.
Becky Carmichael
[9:28] So this degree is something to where it. It also gives you some education and education component?
Valerie Derouen
[9:34] Well you pick a major and a minor, and I picked my major as biological sciences, and my minor was education . So there's other minors that you can pick, but that's what I was going to do. And so I can get experience doing research and education and figure it out.
Becky Carmichael
[9:48] Oh, wow. And then the other thing that you've just mentioned was you- you have people around you that you could talk to tell me a little bit about, you know, what did, who are some of the other individuals, you were speaking so you already mentioned, you mentioned Adrian, and of course, I'm glad we're giving a shout out to Adrian. But what was the value of being able to talk to different people either in the museum or in some of the surrounding departments for you.
Valerie Derouen
[10:18] For a person like me, it was really invaluable because whenever I have an issue or I'm struggling with something, I have to talk about it with people who either I feel might have some insight on it, or just people who are friends or family. And so I was talking to everyone I could at that point, because I was getting nervous that I wasn't going to have a career.
So yeah, I knew Adrian had that path. I was talking to Verity Mathis, who is the master...
she's a Ph.D. student that I was working under as an undergrad, and then my family,
but they didn't know too much about the field, so they were mostly there for emotional
support. But just having people who had, kind of, experienced the same feelings that
I was feeling kind of helped me out and make me feel like okay, it's not, you know,
life isn't over. I even went to see a counselor with... um, within the College of
Science to see what other options were there because I was like, What else? What else
can I do if I wanted to be a scientist, but then I don't want to be a doctor, like
what other fields exist within science. And so yeah, having people to talk to and
just give me options or ideas is really helpful.
Becky Carmichael
[11:27] And I think that that that hits on a really big thing is that we typically think about a scientist holding a Ph.D. and being in the lab or being in the field but understand that to be a scientist, there's other areas in which you can be contributing and investigating and doing work that's really integral so that discoveries are shared and ideas are formed and collaborations can happen. And so I was really excited that this was something that you had done, and we could kind of shed light on this particular area that's also related. Um, how has your degree prepared you for your current role?
Valerie Derouen
[12:08] Yes, so um. During that masters, I felt like I needed to get as much experience in other things as I could, because if I want to do something, I don't want to come into it not prepared. So I was like, Okay, I'm going to be doing this research masters, I did a thesis, like I said, studying the bat fish. So I was like okay, I'm getting some still some research. And I was helping Prosanta Chakrabarty, who was my advisor at the time with the fish exhibit and doing an activity book. But then I was like, Okay, let me move outside of that, and start volunteering at the zoo. Because the zoo has an education department, they are doing lots of informal education about science and animals. So it's like, Okay, I'm going to do that. And then I can get some education experience because I had zero. And so I started working there, and I would just help with summer camp or doing education programs, throughout the year I would go once a month, and then during the school year, and then during summer, I will go once a week. And then I also heard about the EnvironMentors program at LSU, which is run through the College of the coast and environment. And they were looking for a coordinator to run their program. And so that information got passed on to me or passed down to me from Adrian and Prosanta, and at the time we thought it was to be a mentor in the program. And so Prosanta's like, "Oh, yeah, you should totally do it. You should be a mentor." And, I was like "Okay, I'm going to do it." So I applied to be what I thought was a mentor, but I was applying to coordinate the entire program. And I did not know until I got there to go and meet with them. And then they were like, Oh, yeah, we're looking for a coordinator. We're leaving. And it was to graduate students who were running it and they were graduating. And so I was the only person who applied or at least the only serious person who applied. So by the time I found out that they were like.
"Oh yeah well, you know, you're in it now." Like, "We want to hire you." And so I
had a little breakdown, because I'd never coordinated a program before, I had basically
zero education experience. I was like, how am I gonna do this. And now I'm really
pressured into doing it, because they don't have any other options. So if I drop out
who's going to run this program, and the program is for high school students at Scotlandville
Magnet High School who want to have environmental science research experience, and
they get to work with a mentor and create a research project, and they work in labs
and go on field trips, and it's a really, really awesome program. So I was like, Okay,
I guess I'm going to be doing this and cried, was very nervous, and, you know, hesitant,
but I just kind of took that leap of faith, it's like, Okay, I'm gonna do it, I'm
just gonna do it. So, um, that ended up being the best experience and decision of
my life, because that's where I found out that I had a real knack for coordinating
science programs. Like, if I wouldn't have done that, I would have never known that
that existed, and that I could do that and actually be pretty decent at it. So um,
so yeah, that that was my experiences throughout the Masters. Doing research, doing
education, and also coordinating and planning education programs.
Becky Carmichael
[15:25] It sounds like you really were kind of thrown in, thrown into this mix. And I think that speaks into your ability to think quickly on your feet and recover pretty quickly. Right?
Valerie Derouen
[15:38] Yeah! I guess it does!?
Becky Carmichael
[15:40] So tell me... I'm familiar with the museum and that fish exhibit. And I know this was something that you've done with Prosanta, for those that would want to know or want to come and see it? Or also- and also want to see the book. Is the book still available?
Valerie Derouen
[15:59] Yes, it is. So the exhibit exists at the Museum's- the Museum of Natural Science exhibit area. So that is free and open to anyone who wants to see it. Monday through Friday, 8am to 4pm. It's the only fish exhibit in the museum and that's why for Prosanta wanted to create it because he came in as a new Fish Curator in 2008 and there was no fish exhibit. So he's like, we need to get a fish exhibit. And then he wanted to create a companion book for kids. And so this book has all the information from the exhibit in it. There's also like a story that he wrote about a Toad Fish and a Gar, we have activities spread throughout that relate to the exhibits content. So that's what I did, I did the activities. And there's an ABC section, and then even a little dichotomous key for you to identify Louisiana fish. So he wanted the book to be just kind of a hodgepodge of everything we can put into a little kids book. And so yeah, my contributions were activities, ABC's and the glossary I did the glossary too.
Becky Carmichael
[17:02] Oh my gosh, so this sounds- this sounds like it is a pretty amazing resource that would get kids interested and you know, there's kids, probably like their parents or another adult that's going to be working with them to kind of explore and see what's there.
Valerie Derouen
[17:18] Yeah. And they're available, we have a lot available, actually, we're going to be... we sell them for, like $16.50. If you want to buy them at the museum, you could just come to the museum's front office, or you can download the PDF online. So there's a PDF version that's free on our website.
Becky Carmichael
[17:35] Oh wow. So kind of, it's accessible across the board. That's really exciting. And the other thing I was going to say is, essentially, you were doing the work with the pancake bat fish, we definitely have to share a picture of that online for our viewers because this little fish is a quite unique little creature, being quite circular and literally flat with these two eyes that come up on the top, right? And this like little prolonged tail.
Valerie Derouen
[18:07
They are so bizarre looking.
Becky Carmichael
[18:09] They're so bizarre! But they're really cool. And those were located here in golf, right?
Valerie Derouen
[18:13] Yeah, we have a few species in the Gulf.
Becky Carmichael
[18:14] And that, to me blows my mind is like once you see this, and then you discover it's right in our backyard, it's really close. So because we're talking about some of these crazy fish, I really want to jump into one of our favorite questions, which is what is the coolest, craziest, weirdest, or most dangerous thing that you have done and the name of science in your work?
Valerie Derouen
[18:37] So I don't know if it's the most dangerous or weirdest, but when, part of my undergrad I was doing a research program in Huntsville, Texas, it was an REU. And I was working with Sam Houston University studying the mating behaviors of scorpions. So if you don't know, scorpions get into this little dance, it's called the promenade à deux. And they hold pinchers. And the male will guide the female as he's trying to find a really great space to lay his spermatophor. And then once he finds one, like a really good flat space, he drags her over it, and then she will up take it. But he has to keep her interested the entire time. Like he's always massaging her. And like they do something that looks like a kiss, but it's obviously not, like, get really close to each other. So it's really cute. And so my job was to document the mating behaviors of the bark Scorpion that was located in Texas. And so I was- I would spend hours just trying to record these scorpions meeting. And one of our collecting trips, so we had to go and collect the scorpions ourselves, and scorpions glow under black light, they are bioluminescent. So we would shine a black light over the scorpion, and they would glow like this green color. And that's how we would find them because you would go at night, and during this trip. Um, this was my first time working with scorpions, and we don't- we, I think we have scorpions in Louisiana, but they're not very common. We never see them here in Baton Rouge. And so it was a little bit nerve wracking because the ones that we were working with, especially when we were in Arizona, the- there was a really, really venomous scorpion. If you get stung by that it's not good. So I am a person who has what's called sleep related hallucinations. So I- I can, I see things sometimes that aren't there? It's usually sleep related.
Becky Carmichael
[20:37] So you have sleep related hallucinations? And is this something that you've had all your life?
Valerie Derouen
[20:43] Pretty much there's countless stories from my family members? And, you know, friends, boyfriend, everything?
Becky Carmichael
[20:51]
And so have you? Did you warn the people you were with? About this?
Valerie Derouen
[20:57] I think I did? I think we mentioned it?
Becky Carmichael
[21:01] Because otherwise this would be like a fantastic "Surprise!"
Valerie Derouen
[21:03] Yeah, yeah. I mentioned it in casual conversation, sometimes. And so I think we had a conversation with one of the grad students who was on the trip, because he sometimes does the same thing. I normally see animals that he would see people. And so we had, we had talked about it. But then one night, and he also was- talks about how he at home keeps like a gun near his bed for protection. So um, apparently one of the nights I yelled out, get the gun. I don't remember that part. I was sleep talking. But then that woke him up and then he was- got freaked out. He's like, "No, don't get the gun!" because he's thinking that the gun is near his bed. And that woke me up and I started to see scorpions all over the room. So then I started to yell out there's scorpions in there and the scorpions in the room. And so the advisor who is with us, he was like, okay, so everybody's freaking out, and he gets out the black light, black lighting the whole room looking for the scorpions. During that time, I'm starting to realize these scorpions are not here. I'm seeing these things, I'm hallucinating. So then I have to tell them, never mind! (Laughing) They're not there, sorry!
So it's just a huge fiasco in the middle of the night.
Becky Carmichael
[22:17] And how many people are in this room?
Valerie Derouen
[22:19] Four.
Becky Carmichael
[22:20] There's four people, about what time is this?
Valerie Derouen
[22:22] I don't know. Maybe 3am? Like, middle of the night.
Becky Carmichael
[22:24] Oh, my God. And so then... and you guys, you also have to get up pretty early, right? Because...
Valerie Derouen
[22:29] Yeah, right so for this trip, we weren't only collecting scorpions, we were also collecting grasshopper mice. Because the guy that we were working with, he studies the interaction of the scorpions with the grasshopper mice, because the grasshopper mice could eat them and get stung and they don't die. So I'm collecting both, which you- if you're trapping mammals, and live trapping them, you have to get up really early in the morning because we use metal traps and so you don't want them to burn inside the traps.
Becky Carmichael
[22:53] So you weren't getting a lot of sleep now regardless. And then this happens. Um, how many trips were you able to go on with this group? (Laughing)
Valerie Derouen
[23:03] I think we just... we went on one other trip. And it was fine. It was funny. It ended up being funny and fine. But. It was definitely a crazy experience at the time.
Becky Carmichael
[23:14] I cannot imagine, like then, you're waking up and you're realizing what's happening. And then you're having to explain to others. And then as somebody would be in the room with you, I'd be a little freaked out thinking okay, do I- is she right? Is there Scorpions?
Valerie Derouen
[23:29] Right? It's like now we have to check.
Becky Carmichael
[23:31] Yeah, oh, yeah. Like, I'd be checking my sh- well, I was in 29 Palms in California working in Joshua Tree. That was always the warning is don't leave anything on the ground. You never know what's going to crawl into it and seeing the scorpions out there, which to me were quite large, and then seeing the little babies riding on the back of the moms. Which I thought was adorable.
Valerie Derouen
[23:54] It’s so cute...
Becky Carmichael
[23:55] It's soooo cute. But then it would give me, like, it would make itch, kind of thing, because then I'd be thinking about it. And then I'd be at home in my house and thinking, Oh my gosh, is there a scorpion here? I have to, like, kind of look?
Valerie Derouen
[24:08] Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's Yeah. And at this point, I'm, I'm pretty used to telling people, you know that I have it. And I just don't really get embarrassed about it because I've had to tell so many people like, "Oh, nevermind, don't mind me."
Becky Carmichael
[24:22] Well, at this point, yeah, you can't get embarrassed about it, because if it actually happens. And it's not something, It's not under your control. It does make for a funny story, though. And it would make for an interesting evening. (Laughing)
Oh, my goodness. Um, so I want to, I wanted to come back to kind of your role right
now as this uh... the outreach coordinator at the museum, can you give us- what's
a typical day look like for you?
Valerie Derouen
[24:46] It really varies a lot. So it depends on what we have going on. I am responsible for doing our field trips. So if we have groups coming in, I'm either doing behind the scenes tours for them, or doing a scavenger hunt or just trying to manage the crowds. I could also be running our outreach programs. So we have two right now: Special Saturdays, which is our kids program, and then Night at the Museum, which is for the general public, it's like our after hours open house, kind of. So I have to come up with the crafts that we do for the kids program. So sometimes I'm at my desk like coloring or making craft structures to make the example for this program. I also do our newsletters, so I could be editing and putting together the newsletter in InDesign or running our website and social media. So it really, it really depends.
Becky Carmichael
[25:41] Oh my gosh, so how many, um? How many of the special Saturdays and Night at the Museum events do you do in a year.
Valerie Derouen
[25:48] So we have nine special Saturdays, they run from September to May. And then Night at the Museum, we started out twice a semester. But then last year, I started to collaborate with some of the other museums on campus and so that added a fifth one. So I've collaborated with the hill Memorial Library and the herbarium. And then next year, I want to collaborate with the insect- the arthropods museum.
Becky Carmichael
[26:13] Oh, yeah. Well, they've got quite a collection of specimens there.
Valerie Derouen
[26:18] Yeah. So I think it would be really cool. Hopefully, we can make that happen. But we always do birds, mammals, fish, amphibians and reptiles. And so I've been adding a fifth one.
Becky Carmichael
[26:28] I'm excited to hear that because the, the herbarium and the arthropod museum over in the life sciences building. They're small, and it's like, unless you know about them, you don't?
Valerie Derouen
[26:39] Yeah, I mean, most people don't even know we exist. So I'm sure they have, if not, a harder time getting people to know about them.
Becky Carmichael
[26:46] And it's a wealth of things that they have, we have in the museum, right. Um, so in terms of the, the different types of outreach programs that you do, which one's your favorite?
Valerie Derouen
[26:58] Oh I don't know...
Becky Carmichael
[26:59] Do you want to even say there's one that's your favorite?
Valerie Derouen
[27:01] Yeah, but. I love them both. Special Saturday's is really cool, because I get to work with not only museum scientists, but also scientists around LSU that have natural science topics. And so just learning- I get to learn a lot about things that I don't know about. But then also just seeing the kids get so excited about everything and see the same kids coming back is really exciting. Because I'm like, okay, they're liking it, they want to come and learn more. So that one might be my favorite.
Becky Carmichael
[27:35] There's something about the energy of a kid when they, they start to learn and they are asking those questions, and then you see them return. That's really exciting. And you also do... would you consider those outreach events when you're going to different locations, like birthday or Bluebonnet swamp?
Valerie Derouen
[27:53] Yeah, we do a bunch of those throughout the year and just trying to get out in the community. See, we, we mostly stay in South Louisiana, but we've gone to, I think as far as Arnaudville, Louisiana, to the west and then of course New Orleans to the east. And yeah, we even travel to schools. So sometimes I bring specimens to nearby schools and doing events. Yeah, like Earth day or wild things or- just trying to get people who may not travel to LSU a lot or be able to travel to are museum during our operating hours. We can show them who we are, what we're doing in the community.
Becky Carmichael
[28:29] And what seems to get people the most excited or interested during these, any of these events.
Valerie Derouen
[28:35] Seeing the cool animals, they love to see things up close and be able to touch things that they can't touch in nature. Yeah, we have some really cool specimens like bats and even armadillos get people excited. I've been bringing this armadillo we have and you would think that it's really ordinary, but people get excited to see, like, how tough their, their shell is. And there's little hairs that grow in between each band. And so yeah, they just really like getting up close to things that they can't normally see and touch up close.
Becky Carmichael
[29:10] I think this leads us into, into one of the next questions I had for you, which was some of the cool, LSU museum- museum facts right? So I want to ask you, what is the smallest specimen that y'all have?
Valerie Derouen
[29:26] Okay, so I think it might be the the new species of frog that was discovered from Papua New Guinea by Dr. Chris Austin and his student, Eric Rittmeyer, who is now... has graduated. It's, I think the scientific name is paedophryne amauensis, or something like that. And it is the smallest vertebrate in the world that we know of, so if we're talking about adult specimens, that is the smallest that we have. It's, it's even smaller than fish. Now, we might have some larval fish. Actually, we do have some larval fish that are smaller than that, like I know, we have a paddle fish larva, and that is really, really small and might beat out the frog?
Becky Carmichael
[30:14] Really.
Valerie Derouen
[30:15] But that... that's hard to know. So for counting like little babies, it might not be that frog. But if we're counting adults, it's the frog.
Becky Carmichael
[30:21] And the frog. The pictures, I've seen of the frog, it's like sitting on top of a dime, right? And a dime. And the dime is a little bit bigger than..
Valerie Derouen
[30:23] Mmmhmm.
Becky Carmichael
[30:31] That, to me, is crazy. So then yeah, larva that it can be.
Valerie Derouen
[30:35] Yeah, I think we have some larvae that are smaller.
Becky Carmichael
[30:36] Oh my gosh. And you know, I didn't even specify which type of specimen I just said, you know, small. So this is exciting. Alright, so let's go to the other extreme, what's the largest specimen in the museum?
Valerie Derouen
[30:48] Okay, so this, I think, is the whale skulls that we have. So we have a few baleen whale skulls, and they are very, very large, very hard to move, very heavy. But we have like the jaw and the top of the skull of at least two whales.
Becky Carmichael
[31:06] Can you give us an estimate about approximately how heavy and how...
Valerie Derouen
[31:10] I have no idea how heavy it is? I'm trying to think of how like what's a good measurement? Maybe maybe six or seven..?
Becky Carmichael
[31:20] Six or seven feet?
Valerie Derouen
[31:21] Maybe? I'm not a great estimate of uhh.
Becky Carmichael
[31:23] But that's okay. That kind of gives us an idea that it's at least.
Valerie Derouen
[31:26] It's fine. That's just the head.
Becky Carmichael
[31:28] Oh, wow. So do you have any other parts of this, this skeletal structure?
Valerie Derouen
[31:32] I'm not sure. I know. We have the jaw and we have like some Baleen. But I'm not sure about the other bones.
Becky Carmichael
[31:38] Wow. Wow.
Valerie Derouen
[31:41] It's pretty big.
Becky Carmichael
[31:42] Okay, so what's the oldest specimen that you have?
Valerie Derouen
[31:45] Okay so the oldest is a bird called the brown naughty, and it's from 1857.
Becky Carmichael
[31:52] 1857! Was it collected by someone from?
Valerie Derouen
[31:56] No, so we started in 1936. So any specimens that we have from the 1800s are from other museums that have given it to us? So I don't know the whole history of that specimen. I just know it's the oldest.
Becky Carmichael
[32:11] Oh, my goodness, um, rarest specimen?
Valerie Derouen
[32:15] Huh? Well we do have some extinct things. So I guess they would be very, very rare now because they don't exist. But yeah, we have some Carolina Parakeets, Passenger Pigeons, and Ivory-Billed Woodpecker. Oh, wow. Which, the Ivory-Billed Woodpecker is considered extinct. I guess it's not fully proven, so that could be rare. Um. we also have this Hummingbird called the Marvelous Spatula Tail. That's pretty rare. It's a really, really neat Hummingbird that has feathers that come out that they use as a mating dance. So the male's, they have the extended feathers. Um, I don't think it's part of its tail, but it's one of its back feathers. And they can lift them up and perform for the female. That one is a really cool specimen. But I'm sure if you talk to the curators of each collection, they might disagree what's the rarest.
Becky Carmichael
[33:09] In your opinion, what do you think is the weirdest specimen that you have? Or you've seen?
And I'd also like to add, I want to know what your personal favorite is, too.
Valerie Derouen
[33:20] Okay. Let's see weirdest. We have a lot of weird ones. The, so we do have a blob fish, which is cool. So those, they look really weird. And- and normally, they don't look as snotty as they do on the- in the pictures that you see around of blob fish. Yeah, but they live in like deep pressure areas. And so whenever you pull them up fast they... they look bizarre, but we do have one intact. That's pretty weird. And we also have some angler fish. And I always think those are weird.
Becky Carmichael
[33:55] Oh, yeah. I immediately go to um... Nemo. That's in... every time I think of angler fish. (Laughter)
Valerie Derouen
[34:03] Yeah. So that'll kind of lead into my favorites. Because, you know, I studied that fish and they're part of the angler fish group, they have a tiny retractable lurer that releases a chemical instead of a light. They're attracting kind of by smell.
So yeah, all the angler fish. I'm pretty fond of.
I also, like the pangolin that we have, we have a few pangolins there. So neat. If
you haven't heard of pangolins, they are mammals from Africa and Asia that have scales
along their bodies. And so they kind of look like armadillos, but they're not closely
related to them. And they don't have any teeth. They are kind of like an anteater.
They eat ants and termites. And so they're just really bizarre, cool mammals. So yeah,
I would say those.
Becky Carmichael
[34:51] And you've got a couple of specimens of those. Right?
Valerie Derouen
[34:53] Right.
Becky Carmichael
[34:54] Wow. So because you have some of these specimens like the pangolins and the whales, these are threatened and endangered, right?
Valerie Derouen
[35:02] Right. Mmhm.
Becky Carmichael
[35:03] How did you get those specimens?
Valerie Derouen
[35:05] So for the whales, whales are protected and we're not allowed to collect anything that's protected or endangered because, you know, we're trying to learn more about these animals and use that information to help preserve biodiversity. So if a population is really vulnerable, we're definitely not going to want to collect them, because it involves killing them and that would contribute to um... it just wouldn't really help out their situation. So the whales are usually salvaged. So that means they died first. And then we found them dead, or someone found them dead and donated them to the museum. So a lot of things that you see that are protected, like the sea turtles and whales, they were salvaged. But for the pangolins, they were recently added to the endangered species list sometime in the 2000s. And the, I know one that we have is from 1961. So this one was collected before all of that, or before we knew of that, we don't have a lot of pangolins, because of that, there's- we just have three, I believe one of them was like taken from someone who was trying to, like poach it. And then was donated here. So a lot of them, a lot of them are salvaged or collected at a time before either regulations are put into place, or before they were endangered.
Becky Carmichael
[36:33] And this really kind of moves us into that next area I wanted to talk with you about was that, you know, scientists really utilize specimens for a broad range of research, both now and for the future. Can you give us an idea of what really is the value of having these organisms.
Valerie Derouen
[36:51] So the reason that we have these specimens, and we keep these records is because the amount of data that you can gain from them now, and also for their future potential, far outweighs the, I guess the negative impacts of having to sacrifice an animal. There's rules around how you do all of this to make sure it's being done in a sustainable and humane way. Because we don't want to harm local populations, we want to help preserve them. So with a specimen, you're able to have a physical record, which gives you like a snapshot of time. So each specimen, we take data like where is it from? When was it collected? We take autopsy data. So that allows you to study how things are changing over time. So a lot of the research here at the LSU Museum, we're studying evolutionary history of organisms, we're studying how certain things might be impacting populations on an evolutionary level. So looking at, are some species declining? Or are they going through rapid um, rapid radiation, which means they're speciating really quickly, and what things might be causing it, but then also documenting what exists. Because a lot of areas are undergoing deforestation. So a lot of the places that we work like in South America, and Borneo, trees are being cut down, habitats are being taken away. And the museum's are what hold the records of what existed there and help scientists piece together what that animal needs to have a thriving population. So other methods are really great for certain parts of research, but they they don't allow you to have the full scope of assessments. So for example, you might think, Okay, what if we just take pictures of them, instead of having to have a physical record? Well, pictures are dependent on the lighting, the camera that you're using, maybe you need a different angle of something that a picture wouldn't have. And so having that physical record allows you to move it however you need to. Even measurements, we normally don't have measurements in our database, because you don't, you know, science needs to be replicated, and you don't know what instruments You know, there's variability and instruments that you use, and the scientists taking them and there could be error. So you know, you don't want to just trust how someone else measured it, how will you know if they measured it correctly. And sometimes small measurements matter, like small differences in measurements matter. So there's that, I'm trying to think of other methods that aren't as useful. Oh, even like, taking blood samples or pieces of the animal, you might need a different, like a different section that wasn't taken. And so a big boom in research, evolutionary research, or even, you know, things beyond that is looking at the molecular makeup of these stuff. And sometimes certain DNA or RNA or proteins aren't found in just blood, you need different pieces of the animal like kidneys, or hearts or muscles. And so whenever you have a specimen, you- we don't only keep the skin of it, we also keep their skeletons and tissue samples and their stomach's to study diet, sometimes people will preserve eggs. So you just have such a broader range of what the animal can be used for, and things that we don't even know that scientists will need them for in the future, like, for example, back when the museum started, molecular research wasn't a huge thing, like I, you know, we weren't studying DNA then. And that has opened up so much, you know, even beyond evolutionary or ecology studies, and so they could have never known what that could have been. And so we wouldn't have had these records. You know, we can't compare with the past. And even now, there's methods of extracting DNA from really old specimens when you can't get tissues. And so we can now incorporate these older specimens, even some specimens that are extinct, or really rare, or are endangered now that you can't collect now. We have records of that. And so you can use that to create a more complete picture of the past and the future.
Becky Carmichael
[41:18] And I think that this is something that you can also see maybe when- you could isolate potentially, when something might have caused a change, whether it was a change in the physical location, like you said, with changes in deforestation or land use as well as- one of the things that comes to mind is DDT. And you can kind of look and see if that shows up. And when it shows up for your specimens. And I think having those... that long term that, um, that older collection you can go to and look at. I'd also think that you can share this information with other museums, right? So you're not just operating in isolation, but-
Valerie Derouen
[41:56] Right! We're definitely not. Yeah, so all the museum's, we communicate with each other, we'll loan specimens to each other. Like if you're a scientist, and you're working at a museum, and they don't have the specimen that you need, you can contact another Museum, and they might loan it to you. So you know, all the information is shared as best as possible. And even whenever we're collecting in other countries, we normally will split assessments so they could have specimens in the country that we're in. And then we also take specimens and so... yeah that's all shared, all trying to collaborate. And because, because our goal is to kind of document and learn everything that we can about nature, and then use that for, you know, the betterment of conservation practices or human life. And so it- it's to our benefit to collaborate.
Becky Carmichael
[42:42] And I guess I want to also touch on something that was, um, what I had long thought which was what it meant to be- for a- something to be collected. And I think we've touched on it. But I really want to make sure that we cover this, was that I always thought that if you're going to collect a specimen, that you're actually going and sacrificing an individual of the particular species, but that's- that's not quite the case, is it?
Valerie Derouen
[43:07] Yeah, it depends. So it does involve that, like I mentioned, we, we travel all over the world trying to document and learn about these habitats. So in that case, we are sacrificing animals. So it's on things that have healthy populations. There's rules around how many you can collect. So if you're in an area a healthy population might be thousands of individuals, you're only allowed to collect a small number, like maybe even less than 10. Most of the time, it's what you can get. So maybe 1, 2, 3, it just depends on the group. And so there's rules on how many you can collect, how you euthanize them because you want to do it in a way that will minimize their suffering. Like we kind of already mentioned, you can't collect endangered or protected animals. So... so yeah, that side does involve sacrificing, but then we also get a lot of specimens that are salvaged. And I kind of mentioned that with the whales. So we get a lot of window killed birds, especially during migration season, because, you know, they're flying over, hitting windows that look like the sky, they're mirrored windows. And so they can't tell that that's a building there. They'll hit it. And usually that impact either kills them instantly, or kills them, eventually, because of the injuries. Oh, and so we get donations from people who will find dead birds and bring them to the museum. And so yeah, if anyone finds a bird that is recently dead, if you write down where you found it, and the date and your name, and you just freeze it till you're ready, we'll take any of those in. So yeah, that that's a big way that we get a lot of local things is through salvage, we have a huge otter that was hit by a car near the LSU lakes in 2009. I didn't even know there were otters in our lakes, but yeah, but we have a huge male. And yeah, that one was a salvaged specimen.
Becky Carmichael
[45:05] Oh my Gosh!
Valerie Derouen
[45:06] And then the third way would be donations from other museums. And so especially now, you know, some smaller museums are losing their support and funding. And, you know, if animals were being sacrificed, you don't want to lose all of that data and have their deaths be in vain. And so what you do is you donate a collection to another museum that can take care of it. So those are, like, the three main ways it gets specimens.
Becky Carmichael
[45:31] And so this kind of… this might be a tricky question to ask you. But I would imagine, because you're wanting to get a full robust picture of what these, what these species are, what's the full picture of both the organism and potentially even a little bit of the life history and kind of where they're growing there are, which is more important, what's best for the collection, or what's best for the organism. And are those two even separate things?
Valerie Derouen
[45:59] An individual organism or the species as a whole?
Becky Carmichael
[46:03] Maybe a species as a whole.
Valerie Derouen
[46:05] So what's more important is the species as a whole. So we're not going to collect something if it's going to negatively impact that species. So because, you know, as a museum, we're, we're trying to preserve biodiversity, like we love animals at the museum, we want to do everything we can to help protect them. And so sadly, with the way that humans live and exist in the world, we are a little bit destructive, if I'm putting it lightly.
Becky Carmichael
[46:34] I think it's just a light... a light way to say it.
Valerie Derouen
[46:39] Right. And so, we don't always know how we're harming species. And so having the collections are really vital to understanding, okay, what do they need? What are we doing? How do we protect them? And, you know, if we didn't live that way, maybe there would be an argument as to do we even need museums, and do we even need to be killing them? You know, that's a discussion for another day, but in, in this life, and this, you know, scenario, it's, it's something that, if we want to protect what's out there, we need the museums to help us learn about them. So people can think differently. And that's totally fine. Because it's a sensitive subject, you know, it's not something that's happy to kill animals. But we feel like just sacrificing a few of them. The benefit of that to the rest of the species is, is important to us.
Becky Carmichael
[47:35] And I'm glad that I'm glad we were able to touch on that, because I do think that this is something that... I think this is something that is important to really share about what the museum's role is. And I kind of having interacted with you interacting with other researchers, there's a level of respect with how we're collecting those organisms, and then everything that you're able- the wealth of information are able to find, and how that can be applied to how we're protecting and how we are navigating other types of actions in the world. And I think knowing what's out there is so crucial, like you just said, there's otters in the lake. I didn't. Yeah, how would we know this unless someone brought in the species to show you here's something.
Valerie Derouen
[48:17] And then not only knowing but then going beyond that, because some things you can't learn just by looking at them, you know, some things, you really need to get more in depth and you need that physical record.
Becky Carmichael
[48:29] So when you are, you're talking about species value with the public, you've got so much information, both in your head and then at your fingertips at the museum. What really, what really makes the cut when you're kind of talking to somebody- the public about your specimens?
Valerie Derouen
[48:47] Like, do you mean? Are there certain things that I leave out? That's too sensitive? Or?
Becky Carmichael
[48:52] I mean, like, what is, what are some of the things that you feel? When you're talking to somebody? What do you lead with? What do you talk to them about first?
Valerie Derouen
[48:59] Well, if I'm at a public event, I lead with the animals. So you know, talking, answering their questions about what the animals life is like, and you know, how they exists in the world. And then if they inquire further and want to know about museums, a lot of times, the most common question we get at those events is, is it real? And by real they meet alive? Yeah, um, you know, to me, they look like they're not alive, but to kids and people who aren't used to seeing things like this up close. They're not sure. And so that's the number one question we get, is it alive? And then whenever I say, is it dead? Sometimes they do ask, did you kill them? And I personally don't like to lie about it, because I want to create an open dialogue between scientists and the public. And even though it is a really sensitive topic, I don't want to pretend like we don't, because sometimes you do. So now I normally say "Some of them, yes, some of them not." And then I try and explain why we would do that. It's tricky, though, you know, you have to play it by the age and what they're able to understand because that conversation is really nuanced. You know, it's something that... it requires a little bit of time to fully explain, and you don't always have that in a public setting, or even on social media, to explain why it matter and why why we're doing it. You know, it's because some kids will be like, so you kill them to help protect them. That doesn't make any sense. And it's like, right, that sentence does not make sense. But if you're able to have more of a conversation and explain how you know that some things that you're learning, you can't learn by looking at them, I usually explain that maybe try and give examples as to ways that museums have helped us figure out certain things. And then with behind the scenes tours, I'm able to actually use the specimens, how we store them as a way to explain what we're doing with them, because you can pull out a drawer and see, like the diversity of a family of birds, or how certain populations will change based on how you... like elevation. So it can be the same species, but they can look slightly different being at the top of the mountain or at the bottom of the mountain and being in a museum collection space, you can really see that variation. Whereas if you're just observing one, you can't see that variation.
Becky Carmichael
[51:24] And that was always powerful. When you took our Honors book club, behind the scenes, it's even in the room with all of the birds and pulling those drawers out. And you're seeing all this variation and color, all this variation in the morphological differences of the species, it's incredible to see. And to be able to see it in one location, and then know that that's present in, in nature's is a powerful experience. So you've mentioned a couple of these misconceptions, like, is it? Is it real, you know, is it alive? Are there any other misconceptions that you hear frequently that you'd want to try to dispel in this in this conversation?
Valerie Derouen
[52:05] Yeah. Well, one of them is, you know, museum collections can be viewed as, like a stamp collection, you know, people just collecting and seeing how many cool things you can get, just for the sake of seeing cool things. And for a research Museum, that is definitely not what we're doing. We're not just trying to, you know, get anything that's cool and put it in a collection just to say we have it, it's more about collecting a good series, like me, but what I mean by series is you want to have males and females, you want to have collections from different times of the year, so summer and winter, throughout years, so maybe from the 1950s and the 1980s. And then the 2000s, you know, so we're doing this for research purposes, not for a spectacle, or just to show like, look at the cool things we have.
Becky Carmichael
[52:58] This is not a “gotta catch them all” kind of.
Valerie Derouen
[53:00] Exactly! You know, sometimes it could be presented that way because when you're trying to get the public interested, you're like, oh, look how amazing this animal is, because it is, but then you want to make sure that they get the idea that this is not just for spectacle purposes, this is for research, he also show them the tags and how much data we take in the kind of research that we're doing with the specimens. So yeah, that's one of them. I don't know if I could think of another.
Becky Carmichael
[53:23] But that's a good one. I think that that's, that speaks volumes to, kind of, how we view museums and the collection that is assembled and curated to, to display. And then also the fact that it's not just about what you're displaying up front, but it is what you have in the back to that you're actually that research is ongoing, right. I do want to talk a little bit about the global presence of the museum, what is it about our museum that makes it so special, from what you might find on other campuses, for example,
Valerie Derouen
[53:55] Well I know that our museum is the first museum to freeze vertebrate tissues and use them in, in research. So we have the oldest and largest collection of this type in the world. There's thousands and thousands and thousands of frozen tissues, that scientists can loan and we could loan it to other scientists, and you can extract the DNA or RNA or proteins from it, and then learn so much from that. So we loan out these, not only the tissues, but also the the other specimens to researchers all over the place. So that's, that's one thing globally. Also, I've kind of mentioned that we're traveling all over the world to collect specimens. And so we have expeditions happening this summer to Brazil and Papua New Guinea, to explore areas that aren't really explored. You know, Papua New Guinea, I think this is the first time we're going to access this, this area for amphibians and reptiles. And so you know, who knows, we might discover new species there. So, you know, and working with local communities to and so it's not like we're just coming in from America and seeing what we can find. And then just taking it all back for ourselves. That's not how it operates anymore, probably did in the past. But now we really try and collaborate with locals there. And so we have local museums that we work with, and even just people who want to be involved, sometimes kids and the communities get involved. And like I mentioned, we all share the specimens. So whatever we collect, half goes to them, half comes to us. So really trying to establish avenues for also training local people in the countries that we're in. So sometimes they come and study at LSU and get like a masters or Ph.D. So we have a lot of international students that study at the museum, also helping those communities create museums for themselves. And so, so that way, it's not just the western areas that have amazing museums we're also establishing museums, or helping establish museums and other countries. I'm trying to think what else we do globally. Our bird collection is amazing. We have one of the largest collections of birds in the world. And we're especially well known for our South American collection, we have helped write field guides for Bolivia and Peru to document that global biodiversity. And so, yeah, that that's an amazing part of the museum.
Becky Carmichael
[56:30] Yeah, and this is my own curiosity, did you? Isn't there a collection of the sounds, too, for some of these some of these words in the in South America as well?
Valerie Derouen
[56:40] Yeah, usually, we try and get sound recordings for all the birds that we can while we're out there. And so on an expedition, we're prepping the specimens, getting skeletons, taking stomach samples, taking tissue samples, but then also trying to get sound recording. So that's all part of an individual at the museum. So you know, whatever avenue that you want to research about this particular like an animal, we try and provide as much as we can. Because you never know how that information is going to be used.
Becky Carmichael
[57:09] No. And I also, well, just my own curiosity and interest is you what you see in an individual, and then what they sound like, can be so different. And it can be so crazy, because you expect something say to sound robust. And it doesn't. It sounds kind of light.
Valerie Derouen
[57:26] Yeah, and with birds, they have, you know, sounds that they use for like warning, or mating or, you know, like different sounds for the same bird.
Becky Carmichael
[57:35] I know, just all the different types of calls and vocalizations that you can hear from your birds and to your other species. I just, it's, it's fascinating to me. So I imagine you've got some pretty exciting events that are going to be coming up over the next the next year, you want to share some of the ones that you're most excited about, this ties back to some of the things earlier.
Valerie Derouen
[57:58] Yeah, so definitely excited about our next program season for special Saturdays and Night at the Museum. I'm in the process of planning those right now. And so far, we have some pretty cool topics. So I'm excited to see how the kids, you know, interact with that. I did mention that I want to collaborate with the Arthropod museum to add to our Night of the museum program. So that would be really, really cool to see, because I've never really been inside of there. So I think our audience would really love it. And then, you know, I've also been working with the College of Science to create programs for, I guess, groups that aren't always outreached to so we had started our Girls Day at the museum program last year, yeah, last year. And that was really awesome. And I think we're going to be expanding it to just underrepresented groups for next year. So that'll be really exciting, because they not only get to come to the museum and see the amazing stuff we have going on there. But then they also get to learn about all the different departments within the college and get to meet scientists. And it's just a really, really exciting program that I'm excited about.
Becky Carmichael
[59:05] Well, I think that that's that particular program is great, because you're showing these girls, the range of things that can be done in science. One of the things that I... I think about frequently is there's so many different avenues. There's so many different career choices. But if you're constantly just being shown only just a handful, it really can limit your own interests. So by showing them here is all these different areas, and then they get to actually interact with different- different women, different people that are in the sciences. And I think that's a powerful event, I'm excited to see that you're expanding that one. Yeah, I'm so excited about it. So if, if our listeners wanted to get involved, how could they do- do take volunteers for these different events?
Valerie Derouen
[59:52] So for the events, yes, so I manage all of our outreach volunteers. So if you're interested in doing education, or just helping out with some of our events, you don't even have to know that much about animals to work with our kids event. That's just helping the kids do crafts, and you know, helping set up and stuff. So I, if you just email me and let me know, you want to be a volunteer, I'll put you on my list. And I send out emails once a month with all the events that are available. If you want to volunteer more on the research side, that one is dependent on availability. So sometimes, we have spaces for students who want to help out in the lab, or help with like filling jars with alcohol, or writing numbers on bones, or even even the really good ones get to learn how to prep specimens, which takes a lot of training so that that person has to be somebody who's really dedicated who's going to be there a while, but we do have students who learn that. So that would still just be an email to me. And then I would forward that to our scientists. And if anybody has room, then we go from there.
Becky Carmichael
[1:00:59] And I'm, I'm gonna say just because of the tie I have with some of the students that have been over there, that they've either been part of the CxC distinguished communicator program, or they've been affiliated with some of the workshops that we've done through posters, the students that either- that both get involved with you and volunteer, and then those that are behind the scenes. I'm thinking about Link right now. Oh, yeah, no. Link is pretty amazing. And I'm thinking about all the experiences he and others have been able to have. And it's a really rich opportunity to learn both. What's behind, what's the research side? But then also, what is the communication component inside look like as well? Yeah. Okay, so one last fun question for you. You've mentioned that you work with a broad range of people across all ages. And as a former interpretation, Ranger with the Park Service, I know that when you're working with a broad age group, you've got to be really quick on your feet when situations arise. And there's some things that maybe you shouldn't say in front of this large group or not. But can you share with us a moment or moments where you've had to improvise or MacGyver your way to achieve your goal?
Valerie Derouen
[1:02:16] Okay, so I'm sure that there's many experiences that I'm forgetting and not remembering. But there's one time I was actually going to present some specimens to the environment tours groups. So even though I'm not the coordinator anymore, I still sometimes work with the group just to either bring museum specimens or tour them around. And so I was going visit them at one of their meetings, and I had some jars of reptiles and amphibians with me, and I was trying to roll them on the car, like I have a little basket that I carry, and I'm rolling them on the cart. And there was a like, uneven sidewalk, and my wheel hit the unevenness and the force of that, I guess I was moving fast, knocked over my entire cart of things. And it broke, I believe it was a turtle jar. So then there's It was a big jar, like think of big giant pickle jar. And there was alcohol all over the sidewalk. This mammals specimens had fallen. So then I was trying to hurry up and grab all them. So they didn't get covered with alcohol. And then I said this is before the presentation. So and I don't have time to go back. So I'm like trying to pick up pieces of glass, make sure I have all the specimens, make sure I have their labels, because the most important thing is to grab the specimens and their labels. So you have all the data. So I grabbed all of that. And then I will into the the thing smelling complete like alcohol because it was really strong at this point in our older teaching collection, amphibians and reptiles are in isopropanol, which smells a lot stronger than ethanol. Oh, yeah, wheel in and just- just made it work. You know, I had my tray, took everything out, through an excess glass. And then once that was done, I went back to the museum and then hurry up and got them a new jar and put everything in but it was definitely a moment where I was like, What am I gonna do because there's broken glass and alcohol everywhere all over the sidewalk. I have to pick up everything.
Becky Carmichael
[1:04:12] And that's going to be a strong smell.
Valerie Derouen
[1:04:14] Yeah. And then I still had to present and be, you know, couldn't be too worried about what just happened. I had to present and be lively and engaging to this group of students.
Becky Carmichael
[1:04:25] And the specimens are okay, right.
Valerie Derouen
[1:04:27] Okay. Yeah, they didn't get damaged. Thank goodness.
Becky Carmichael
[1:04:29] Because all I can imagine is there's been some specimens that we've talked about, you have to keep them you have to keep them moist or something you have to keep washing them.
Oh, no. So you have a tray and you're like please don't dehydrate before I need to
get back there.
Valerie Derouen
[1:04:43] Yeah, usually keep a squirt bottle of extra ethanol that I'll spray them with. So I had that and so they are fine and I wasn't... I was on campus just on the opposite side. So it was okay, I was able to collect them all and they were totally fine. But yeah, definitely wheeled into that meeting with broken glass all in the, the basket.
Becky Carmichael
[1:05:02] Oh no. So now when you if you've traveled do you c- do you carry some extra jars and extra alcohol just in case this were to repeat itself. (Laughter)
Valerie Derouen
[1:05:12] I actually don't carry extra jars. But what I do is I try and be really mindful of where I'm wheeling things or if I see it's uneven I try and go over it slow or lift it a little bit so I'm just trying to be more mindful of what I'm doing.
Becky Carmichael
[1:05:25] I feel for you in that moment. Because it's like you've got your- you're thinking about what am I going to talk about how am I gonna- who's gonna be in the room and then for the, what I consider, the guarantee thing that supposed to be successful to go awry?
Valerie Derouen
[1:05:39] Yeah, that can be...
Becky Carmichael
[1:05:41] Going up into your nerves a little bit.
Valerie Derouen
[1:05:43] Yeah. Luckily this group though, I knew some of the students so I was- I was in a relaxed setting. So it was okay.
Becky Carmichael
[1:05:49] Valerie, I really sincerely want to thank you so much for joining me and doing this today.
Valerie Derouen
[1:05:54] You're welcome. Thanks for having me.
Becky Carmichael
[1:05:57] This episode of LSU Experimental was recorded and produced and the CxC Studio 151 here on the campus of Louisiana State University, and is supported by LSU communication across the curriculum and the College of Science. Today's interview was produced by Kyle Sirovy, and our theme music is “Bramby at Full Gallop” by PC3. To learn more about today's episode, subscribe to the podcast, ask questions and recommend future investigators, visit cxc.lsu.edu/Experimental.